Poll

Were Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald personally acquainted?

Yes.
No.
I Don't Know.
I Suspect So.
I Doubt It.

Author Topic: Did LHO know Jack Ruby?  (Read 5684 times)

Alan Dale

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Did LHO know Jack Ruby?
« on: July 11, 2013, 01:27:35 am »
What do you believe?

Why do you believe it?
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Alan Dale

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Re: Did LHO know Jack Ruby?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 01:31:52 am »


During the run of a previous incarnation of this poll, a majority of those who participated made it clear that to suggest Oswald and Ruby were not acquainted would be a minority opinion. My personal stance on this question is this:

While it may be possible, perhaps even plausible, that Jack Ruby and LHO were acquainted with each other, there is no indisputable evidence of which I'm aware that proves a) the nature/degree/details of that familiarity, b) whether any relationship/familiarity/knowledge or awareness actually existed, or c) it is necessary for these men to have had any relationship at all for Ruby to have killed Oswald on instruction from some other authority.

I am always willing to reconsider my positions. I have concluded that no relationship of any significance has been established between these individuals. I do not believe they knew each other. I do not believe that Jack Ruby was coerced, blackmailed, threatened, or hypnotized to kill Lee Harvey Oswald. I believe Jack Ruby was emotionally and mentally unstable, and that his act was a silver platter that fate gifted to those responsible for President Kennedy's removal.

If we relax the urgent necessity of assuming an association between Oswald and Ruby as part of the ultimate unraveling of these crimes, we eliminate one distracting and time-consuming misdirection which has taunted us during the many years of these investigations.

I could be wrong.

Thank you for participating.
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Alan Dale

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Re: Did LHO know Jack Ruby?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 12:50:03 am »
Ruby's past as a gun-runner involved with Cuban affairs would make it likely he would know the difference between the FPCC and the Free Cuba Committee. It was also in the news all afternoon, so he could have heard about it that way. As an errand-boy, Ruby would likely have been ordered to run around doing all kinds of tasks that weekend, and phone calls in the months before, without necessarily knowing the larger picture.

I think Alan was the one who voted that Ruby killed Oswald entirely on his own. I'd sure like to hear his views on that in more detail.
I could change my mind about Ruby, but only if someone can persuade me with their arguments.  ;)

^ True.

I could be wrong. I'm open to being educated. Here's where I am: I believe there are, indeed, pieces of the puzzle that don't fit, and there are reasons why. We inherit a box full of pieces. Everything we think we know about the 3 murders of that weekend are included within that box. For almost 5 decades a lot of people, some brilliant and some foolish, have engaged in the basic process of fitting the pieces together. What I have come to realize is that the absence of instructions, no detailed directions, no key as to how these pieces may be assembled, is only going to retard our progress if we assume all pieced must relate to each other and must fit together.

They don't. And if we're not careful, we will waste the rest of our lives engaged in futility.

Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Billie Holiday and other legendary Jazz artists were represented by a notorious and seriously mob-connected Agent/Manager named Joe Glaser. In addition to being as corrupt as you might imagine, Glaser also did a hell of a lot of good representing and promoting Black entertainers during the era of strict segregation and discrimination. A former associate of Al Capone himself, Glaser was founder and president of Associated Booking Corporation, a powerhouse agency that represented much of the country's top jazz talent from the 1930s through the 1960s. There is no Wikipedia or Allmusic.com entry for Glaser. But somewhere there is recorded an anecdote reported by the great Jimmy Breslin.

Breslin was sitting in Glaser's NY office when their conversation was interrupted by the telephone. Breslin sat quietly while Glaser took the call. Whoever was on the other end of the receiver did most of the talking, and Breslin noted that Glaser's terse responses
consisted primarily of "Yeah," and "Okay." When the call was over, Glaser described in a very dismissive manner the irrelevance of who and what had just interrupted them. It was a Night Club owner in Dallas named Jack Ruby who wanted to book Ella Fitzgerald to perform at his place and was not dissuaded by the $10,000.00 fee. Breslin describes how Glaser went on to describe Ruby in unflattering terms and explained that he toook calls such as that from Ruby periodically, none of which ever resulted in a booking.

Well.... if that doesn't prove my thesis that Ruby was a fragile, mentally and emotionally unstable "Lone Nut," then I don't know what may.



:-|

Okay. You need more. I get that.

I will reply with a more detailed explanation of my current attitudes concerning Jack Ruby's alleged involvement with conspirators on whose behalf he is supposed to have acted. I currently believe he was neither coerced, bribed, or manipulated, in any way, by individuals or groups who were concerned that Oswald would betray secret incrimination. I'll come back to it.
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Redfern

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Re: Did LHO know Jack Ruby?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2013, 05:21:24 am »
Yes, I think Oswald and Ruby knew each other, although probably not very well.

Like all eyewitness sightings, many of the two being seen together are possibly mistaken or attention-seeking. Two candidates for 'Oswald' are Larry Crafard and Igor Vaganov and either of those may have been identified as Oswald following the Tippit murder.

Nevertheless, some sightings are of Oswald in the Carousel and the witnesses (one of whom was Kay Coleman and another the MC) appear to have been convinced.

There are further links in regard to Bertha Cheek - owner of 1026 North Beckley and someone Ruby tried to sell the Carousel to.

The phone number of Joe Cody - the DPD officer who sold Ruby his revolver - was found in Oswald's notebook (written twice).

There's the Hank/Wanda Killam-John Carter-Oswald-Ruby link.

Oswald and Ruby also opened a PO Box on the same day.


Ruby was forced to kill Oswald for fear he would talk. He was the only way the conspirators could get to Oswald in the short-term.

I suspect he didn't envisage the death penalty.


TLR

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Re: Did LHO know Jack Ruby?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2013, 09:48:32 am »
Well, there is this guy, who looks enough like Oswald to fool even me.
I can't remember the story behind this photo. Is the girl on stage supposed to be Beverly Oliver?