Author Topic: State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City, Double Agents, and the Framing of LO  (Read 36895 times)

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:36:17 pm by Alan Dale »
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Leslie Sharp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
I wish that I had followed Bill Simpich's work more thoroughly, and I respect what appear to be herculean efforts on his part; having said that, this theory about Morales begs more questions than it answers.   Where I do find common ground with Simpich, fwiw, is his insistence that this case can (and must?) be solved, and that it will be solved if enough Americans insist that it be resolved.  When the majority of Americans fell under the spell of those intent on a successful cover-up, influenced further by the Warren Commission, and later when they ignored possible resolution of the assassination even when presented with new discovery during and after the HSCA hearings, we all reaped the Democracy we deserved up to and including the current invasion of our privacies and endless wars in our name. We now deserve only that which we demand.

echelon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
I'm a great admirer of Bill Simpich's work and look forward to seeing his e-book over the next few weeks.  I think that we should extend a vote of thanks to Bill (and MFF) for providing this material free of charge, in this year of all years.

His seminal work on Oswald and his 12 handlers was one of the main things that convinced me Oswald was set up:

www.opednews.com/populum/seriespage.php?r=45    (sorry about the crap formatting)


Two things stand out from this extract of State Secret.  The first is that Simpich works on the basis that Oswald was in Mexico City after all.  This is something that I have never been able to get my head around.  I accept that he was impersonated there but was he ever physically present?  Where is the evidence to support such a claim?  Hopefully, Bill Simpich can lay out a convincing case one way or the other.

The other is this quote:

Quote
Others have argued to me that Angleton and covert action chief David Phillips were part of a plan to kill Kennedy, but my present perspective is that both of them - like Goodpasture and operations chief Richard Helms, who I believe were in on the molehunt - were entrapped by the impersonation.

Wow!  If true, this would reset many of my carefully assembled understandings and beliefs, about Angleton in particular.  Was he just another patsy after all?  The mind boggles.

I'm really looking forward to this e-book and I hope we can discuss it all here.

[Edit - had to repost five times as the second half kept disappearing on posting.  In the end I had to shorten the text in the quote box.]

« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 08:20:55 am by echelon »

Cutty

  • Guest
^ Not all of us have been having the same trouble posting and I'm sorry to say that I'd only be guessing at this stage but we've seen updates to browsers cause temporary glitches due to compatiblility with the server.


echelon, if you haven't taken in Alan's interview with Bill Simpich try here:

http://www.jfkessentials.com/forum/index.php?topic=6.0

Use the link to the Souncloud file and see if you can play it. If not, there is a button to switch to the old version of Soundcloud, try that. If the problem persists try a different browser, for example, if you use Firefox then try Internet Explorer, AOL etc. Do the browser switch to see if you get different results posting here too. We have just had to wait these glitches out in the past. Feedback is appreciated, thanks.  ;)

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Leslie Sharp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
I'm wondering if anyone knows whether or not Bill Simpich refers to EH Cookridge's material on Air Force Intelligence?  I can't figure out how to do an efficient word search of Bill's excellent research. Thanks in advance for any input.

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
I'm wondering if anyone knows whether or not Bill Simpich refers to EH Cookridge's material on Air Force Intelligence?  I can't figure out how to do an efficient word search of Bill's excellent research. Thanks in advance for any input.

Hi Leslie,

Cookridge/Spiro has not figured in Bill's work.
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Leslie Sharp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Tks Alan.  I'll pull together what I see that might be relevant to his Webster research and post it soon.  It's just a theory, but it might shed a degree of light or pry open a door at least.

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Phil Dragoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
State Secret: Chapter One: Double Dangle
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 04:08:58 am »
Simpich notes:

It is also important to look at the defection in 1959 of another defector, Robert Webster. Webster, a Navy veteran, defected two weeks before Oswald - and returned to the US two weeks before Oswald. Whether Oswald and Webster knew it or not, US intelligence used both men as "dangles" to learn more about Soviet military plans and to try to unearth enemy spies known as moles.

which is followed by a key paragraph sourced to Armstrong Harvey and Lee:

One story illustrates how strong this resemblance was between Oswald and Webster. Robert Webster met Oswalds future wife Marina Prusakova at the American Exhibition held in Moscow during the summer of 1959. They saw each other again in 1960. Curiously, Marina spoke English to Webster, while she only spoke Russian when she came to the United States with Oswald.[ 2 ] On one occasion, Marina even confused Webster with Oswald. Webster and Oswald were used to loosen Soviet tongues, and they may have never realized it.

When we look at note 2 it's to a four-paragraph section of Harvey and Lee which I see as vital, so I append that here:

John Armstrong, HARVEY & LEE, page 267 excerpt 3rd 1959 American defector

NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with her in English.  Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent.

A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could return to the US.

Marinas friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswald went to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helped set up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow.  Marina had momentarily confused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US defector, whom she met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960).

It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald defected a few months apart in 1959, both tried to defect on a Saturday, both possessed sensitive information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962.  These US defectors, acting in perfect harmony, were both working for the CIA.


I don't see there's any question Oswald was part of a false defector program.  His last call Saturday November 23 was to John Hurt of Raleigh North Carolina which Victor Marchetti says was to a clean contact to an ONI handler.

I see Simpich citing Norman Mailer quipping Oswald was a spy in his own mind and I immediately think of Antonio Veciana who reported to Gaeton Fonzi in The Last Investigation that Oswald was with David Atlee Phillips using the alias Maurice Bishop in Dallas in the summer of 1963.

Bill Bright of CIA shoehorns disinfo into the 5/12/60 report of John Fain.

The obvious similarity of Webster and Oswald--and the amazing coincidence that they both met Marina--and she was faking not being able to speak English to Lee and just happened to be the niece of an intelligence officer.

Also of note the cancel of the FLASH 10/9/63 which is huge in John Newman Oswald and the CIA.

To Bannister Oswald was one of ours--I have here Phil Melanson Spy Saga in the to-read stack--bottom line, it's disingenuous to say the most important figure of US intelligence of the Twentieth Century was a spy in his own mind.

It's the kind of denial Bugliosi presents when he says if Oswald didn't kill Kennedy, Kennedy didn't die.

A curious similarity in technology transfer: KGB came to Webster to get details of the plastic spray gun;

CIA came to Terry Reed to have him apply his metallurgical and computer-numeric-controlled expertise to bootleg lower receivers to transform AR-15s into fully-automatic M-16s for Nicaragua in a book where Clinton and North argue over cocaine profits in a bunker.

We may look at George Michael Evica A Certain Arrogance to see Lee Oswald enrolled at Albert Schweitzer College in Switzerland which was a portal for professionals so hidden as to take weeks for intelligence to find it, during which Oswald was already in Moscow talking to the Priscilla Johnson who can be counted on to "write the articles we want".

For a valuable insight into a true CIA journalist asset, consider the following uttered by Priscilla Johnson McMillan in 2007:

Oswald was a believing Marxist, and his motive was to strike the deadliest blow he could imagine at capitalism in the United States.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2007/06/lho.html

Oswald was used by intelligence from his earliest military service--Nagell said Oswald trained at Nags Head in 1957 (ONI).

In no way was Oswald a spy in his own mind.

We do have a number of different agencies and divisions of agencies operating with differing agenda.

Harvey is of note with Sigint/Staff D duties and later ZR RIFLE (Assassinations).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 04:21:22 am by Alan Dale »

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
^ Please note that some punctuation marks have been omitted or replaced by moderator to facilitate the posting of Phil's commentary.
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Chapter 2: Three Counterintelligence Teams Watched Oswald

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/State_Secret_Chapter2
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Alan Dale

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 387
Comment and commentary by Bill Simpich and Leslie Sharp from jfkfacts.org:

Bill Simpich
October 10, 2013 at 1:11 pm   

Tapping on cell phone here. I think David Morales or someone with comparable abilities staged the impersonation of Oswald and the Cuban consulate officer Silvia Duran, knowing it would be picked up by the wiretap system in Mexico City, knowing it would be noticed because Duran was a known quantity, knowing it would result in an investigation by Angleton s people and the Mexico City station, knowing that they would start a mole hunt b/c that was how Angleton did things. Once this mole hunt about Oswald was memorialized in memos it was prime blackmail material against the officers who created the two different and contradictory memos of oct 10, 1963, fifty years ago today.

State Secret does not address this in detail till chapter five, but you can get a look at an earlier version of that chapter at oped news. Type into your browser: The twelve who built the Oswald legend: part 10.


Reply   
leslie sharp
October 11, 2013 at 1:16 am   

Bill Simpich: I am pursuing the history of Air Force Intelligence, Air Force Security Service relating to the NSA and Major General John B. Ackerman. Is it possible that an operation initiated in the early 1950 s morphed into one that recruited R. Webster later in the decade?


Reply   
Bill Simpich
October 13, 2013 at 3:56 pm   

In response to Leslie, I think that Air Force intelligence would have been interested in all Americans who went to the Soviet Union in that era in a general sense, and certainly someone like Webster who could be debriefed after his return with a report on Soviet capabilities. Webster was described as a Project and Guide 223, so there was a bigger operation but I doubt Webster was aware of it. I see that Ackerman was a deputy director of the NSA, you are working with some great material.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:17:43 pm by Alan Dale »
Our future may lie beyond our vision, but it is not completely beyond our control. It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

RFK

Leslie Sharp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Alan, I'm anxious to pursue this.  My hesitation has been that I haven't studied Bill Simpich's work thoroughly.  However, I'll launch into my hypothesis over the weekend with the caveat that I may step on toes at the very least, or worse, I may step out onto that precarious limb of ridicule.

Cutty

  • Guest